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  Victim Of Kefka
 
 
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Default  Did Sephiroth Really Kill Aeris! ~SPOILERS~
06.10.02, 11:44:22
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Im starting this off from another topic here (cant remember which) a while back, no one could explain why Sephiroth was walking the planet and being in the Northern Crater at the same time, someone on my forums came up with a possible idea that it was Jenova!?

Heres how it is, Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells while still a baby in his mother, there for Sephiroth is a puppet and can easily be controlled by Jenova at will seeing as Sephiroth had Jenova's cells all in him, so when Sephiroth found Jenova in the Reacter and set her free she then had the power to control Sephiroth, of course he was defeated by Cloud in the reacter and fell into the lifestream from there (possible reason as to why he ended up at the Northern Crater) anyway, years later Sephiroth comes back, or so Jenova will make you believe, Jenova had a plan something to do with a reunion, Jenova could also partially control Cloud but not fully (Cloud got treated with her Cells in Nibelheim but his body rejected them but still they had a small effect on him such as the memory being mixed up) so Jenova had anceint powers as well, who was that Sephiroth wondering around, could have been a creation of hers to imitate Sephiroth and his power seeing as Sephiroth was in the Northern Crater it could not have been him at all, so this creation of Jenova set out to free her from the Shinra HQ in Midgar, also disposing of Shinra before leaving.

Also ever notice how in each battle Sephiroth leaves a piece of Jenova behind and it becomes a huge thing and Cloud has to fight it, also Jenova who isnt always at the scene talks through Sephiroth, it must be her or her creation, this is all very logical just look at how things went and in each battle u had with Jenova!

And one little point, in the beggining of the game someone talks to cloud, screen goes black and words appear in other words, that could have been Jenova, she needed Cloud to get the black Materia so she helped him through some difficult times while at the same time confusing him!!

So now what does this have to do with Aeris, every one says Sephiroth himslef killed her, but is that really true? possibley not, Sephiroth is in suspended animation somewhere else, so this must mean Jenova herself killed Aries or used her creation, the imitation of Sephiroth to kill Aeris, which means no Sephiroth did NOT kill Aeris!!

So anyone have any opinions to add to this?
This is only my point of view trying to explain who that other Sephiroth wondering around was!

Let me add another point, about Jenova and the copy of Sephiroth!

Remember he was in the womb of the mother when he recived the cells, he wasnt fully formed and so Jenova's cells made up Sephiroths body, so now if Jenova ever wanted to make a copy of Sephiroth she could because her cells are all around his body, its basically apart of the makup and structure of his body, so Jenova can succesfully create a complete double of Sephiroth with all his power, his looks, his stature, everything, as for the memories, the copy didnt exactly tell the truth to Cloud at times, but Jenova could also have access to Sephiroths memories for her cells were in him, so thats why he seemed so much like the real Sephiroth!

Actually this makes me think that Sephiroth died in that reacter in Nibelhiem, but ill leave that for another time


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Last edited by Victim Of Kefka; 06.10.02 at 11:53:08..
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Default  06.10.02, 14:29:06
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thats some very good thinking Kefka, but in the crater at the end, you fight Jenova Synthesis.. the final jenova right? well after you kill that, wouldn't it end the "spell" effect on sephiroth? it does make sense right? but also, he is not in the crater the whole time remember? throughout the game your always a step behind him b/c at almost every town they say something about "a man in a black cape just left" or something of that sort... well we'll let others post about this and see what they think.

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Default  06.10.02, 14:37:50
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Thats because Sephiroth died in the makeo reactor... Zack fought him and lost, Cloud picked up the buster sword and finished it. I think any way... Been a long time since i played FF7.


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Default  06.10.02, 14:41:42
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WHOA!!!! Lemme think, here!

-Processing information-

Okies...

Sephiroth definitely was a separate being from Jenova and was not being controlled by it. Remember when Sephy takes teh black materia from Red XIII? Somewhere in that part of the game, he says something like "this body has outlasted its usefulness" or something like that. I think that after cloud killed sephy in the reactor at nibelheim, he fell into the lifestream and came out at the north crater in that huge materia ball. By that time, he was already more powerful than before, and he had harnessed the power of the lifestream. he then recreated his normal body and controlled it through his will, and made it do all teh stuff that he supposedly did, like kill prez Shinra and kill Aeris. So in a sense, it was Sephy who killed Aeris, but at the same time, it wasn't...

EDIT: About Jenova:

Jenova and Seph are not related at all. Seph was born to Prof. Gast and Lucrecia. True, Gast found Jenova, but he didn't have sex with it or anything, he locked it away for further research in the future. When Gast died, Hojo took his place. Hojo experimented on Seph, and injected Jenova cells into him, which was why he was so powerful when he was in SOLDIER. Somehow he got confused and ended up thinking that Jenova was his real mother, probably because Lucrecia and Gast were dead.

Any other speculations?

Last edited by Sebastian; 06.10.02 at 14:48:13..
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Default  06.10.02, 14:50:36
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ok, wait wait wait!!!!
i did see sephiroth's sword go right into aeris' back, and out the front, and i recall cloud dumping her into the water!(not to sound bad) and i remember fighting jenova after that. so there you have it. he did kill her!

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  Victim Of Kefka
 
 
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Default  06.10.02, 14:52:49
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But what about Jenova being there all through his journey, he was practically doing what Jenova says, also remember after he killed Aeris jenova said Cloud was just a puppet, Cloud had a small dose of jenova cells in him where as Sephiroth has a whole load, and with the Jenova cells in Seph he was eventually corrupted, like all evil is basicly it corrupts people!

Also Seph did get the Black Materia from the temple, thing is why didnt he bring it himslef to where he was in the crater?

And his actual body was in the crater the whole time, and had been there for a long while by the looks of it, so the Sephiroth going around could not have been him!

And him saying he no longer needed the body, its like Jenova no longer needed the copy Sephiroth so told it to destroy itself, you see what im trying to say here or what?
Quote:
Sabastian
Jenova and Seph are not related at all. Seph was born to Prof. Gast and Lucrecia. True, Gast found Jenova, but he didn't have sex with it or anything, he locked it away for further research in the future. When Gast died, Hojo took his place. Hojo experimented on Seph, and injected Jenova cells into him, which was why he was so powerful when he was in SOLDIER. Somehow he got confused and ended up thinking that Jenova was his real mother, probably because Lucrecia and Gast were dead.
First of all Gast was with the other Ancient woman and they had Aeris, second Hojo was with Lucrecia the whole time in Nibelhiem, Hojo is Sephiroths father, Hojo says this when you fight him on the cannon!
And I already said in my first post about this, Hojo said he injected the cells into Lucrecia while Seph was still in the womb, Seph was still growing and with the added Jenova Cells they would have become Sephiroth and so, read my first post more carefully!
Quote:
Ultima
ok, wait wait wait!!!!
i did see sephiroth's sword go right into aeris' back, and out the front, and i recall cloud dumping her into the water!(not to sound bad) and i remember fighting jenova after that. so there you have it. he did kill her!
YOU DIDNT READ A DAMN THING I SAID ABOVE DID YOU!!!!!!!

Last edited by Victim Of Kefka; 06.10.02 at 14:58:05..
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Default  06.10.02, 14:58:50
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Too much information here. I'm outta this...
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Default  06.10.02, 19:28:24
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ok, some people are losing the point, you all have good debating skill but there is only one truth... i don't think seph was in the crater teh whole time cuz you saw him walking around and stuff. end of discussion....
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  Victim Of Kefka
 
 
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Default  06.11.02, 03:18:20
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YOU obviouslt did NOT see the flashback in the Shinra mansion on disc 3 which explains where he was, it said he was in the crater the whole time, and how can two Sephiroths be at the crater at the same time, even Cloud says he was there the whole time, the Seph leading him to where the real him was had to be a copy by Jenova!

I would not be saying all this if I didnt have all the facts which you obviously dont!
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Default  06.11.02, 12:32:39
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whoa whoa hold on there pal, no need to get nasty about this, i just totally forgot about the disc3 flashback, i'll hafta watch it and get back to you on that..
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Default  06.11.02, 12:32:55
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Quote:
ok, some people are losing the point, you all have good debating skill but there is only one truth... i don't think seph was in the crater teh whole time cuz you saw him walking around and stuff. end of discussion....
Kefka's the only one who's right about the whole thing. It is indeed a proven fact that Seph was at the North Crater the whole f*cking time. As was said several times before, the Seph you see through almost the whole game is AN ILLUSION AND NOT THE REAL SEPHIROTH!!!!!!!! There are sooooooo much thingies thorugh the whole game which point to that fact. I just recentely replayed the game so I should know.

Seph dropped into Lifestream and gathers an increadable amount of power. With this power he could control all his succesful clones from a distance. This way, he could also represent himself in the real world through these clones by making them look like Seph. Cloud was a failure which is why he could only be partially controlled.

Jenova is indeed related to Seph. Hojo and Lucretia had a relationship and when Lucretia got pregnant, Hojo injected her with Jenova cells. Why? Easy as pie. Remember those mutants if you so will in the Nibelheim Reactor. Those were all failed Jenova experiments. Full grown men who just mutated by the Jenova cells. Because of this, Hojo thought by himself that it might be better injecting a still growing lifeform like his own son which still had to be born. That is why Seph is in fact the only Jenova experiment that truly worked. Cloud was injected when he got captured by Shinra together with Zack. They were put in the Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim and got injected by cells there. They also got Mako treatment, but since Zack was already part of SOLDIER he (in contrary to Cloud) didn't experience any strange altering effects. Cloud did, which (together with his frustration of never having made it to SOLDIER and looking up to Seph and Zack) created that messed up mind of his.

How easy it is to write difficulty
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Default  06.11.02, 12:43:39
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it's strange how people can beat a game so many times and still be confused by the story, thats when it's a good story...
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Default  06.11.02, 12:50:27
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And to proof all this, here is a part of a very good plot analysis I found on the Net:

5 years ago

- Reports of monsters disrupting life for the workers at the Mt. Nibel Mako
reactor results in Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud being sent to Nibelheim to
investigate. On reaching Nibelheim Cloud keeps his identity hidden from Tifa
and the other townspeople. He cannot bear to be seen as just an "ordinary"
solider.

Tifa takes the party to the Mako reactor. Tifa and Cloud stay outside. Inside,
Sephiroth discovers Jenova's body and sees all the mutated "failed" experiments
of Hojo's. He begins to realise his origins may be similar and becomes upset.
Zack is disbelieving at first, but when one of the mutated humans falls out of
a pod he also begins to be concerned. The party return to Nibelheim Mansion.

Sephiroth finds all the notes of Jenova Project in the basement of the Mansion.
He is aware of Professor Gasts initialisation of the project but has not been
told how Gast died or Hojo's full involvement in his creation. Later in the
night Zack goes to speak to Sephiroth and finds Sephiroth a changed man.
Sephiroth has discovered Gasts notes he made at Icicle Lodge about the
Ancients. He now believes he is descended from the Ancients and regards normal
humans as traitors who abandoned the Cetra to a terrible disaster. However he
does not seem to accept Jenova is the cause of that disaster. He rants and
raves at Zack before leaving quickly to see Jenova whom he refers to as
"Mother".

Zack follows him outside and sees the whole village in flames. Many people are
dead or dying, a Shinra Soldier (Cloud) tends to his dying mother. Sephiroth
heads for the reactor with several townsfolk in hot pursuit. Tifa and Zack
chase after him, Cloud following behind.

At the reactor Tifa discovers her father's body. Sephiroth has killed him. As
Sephiroth moves towards the Pod with Jenova in it, Zack tries to attack him but
is batted away. Tifa picks up Sephiroth's discarded sword and attacks him, but
he takes the sword back and cuts her down. Cloud arrives to witness this and
he tenderly moves Tifa into a more comfortable position before confronting
Sephiroth.

Sephiroth opens the pod and tries to free Jenova. As Cloud approaches
Sephiroth tells Jenova he has come to reclaim the Planet for her. Cloud stabs
Sephiroth then returns to tend to Tifa. Injured, Sephiroth can only take
Jenova's head with him, he leaves the pod room, walking past Cloud. Cloud
follows him onto the bridge above the Life stream running far below at the
bottom of the reactor. Sephiroth stabs Cloud though the chest, but Cloud keeps
a hold of the sword and uses it to flip Sephiroth and Jenova's head into the
bottom of the Mako reactor. Cloud then passes out.

- In the immediate aftermath, Zangan (Tifa's tutor) arrives at the reactor and
takes the wounded Tifa to Midgar. Here she sets up a bar called "Seventh
Heaven" in the sector 7 slums when she has recovered.

- Cloud, Zack and the surviving residents of Nibelheim are gathered up and used
by Hojo to create clones of Sephiroth now they believe the original is dead.

- Far from dead, Sephiroth washes through the Life stream until he ends up at
the Great North Cave. Having assimilated the knowledge of the Ancients while
in there he begins to formulate a plan to turn himself into a God. This
involves summoning a Meteor to cause a big enough wound on the planets surface
to make the Life stream rush to one place, where he can absorb it all. Over
the next 5 years he experiments with controlling the Sephiroth clones remotely
and projecting himself psychically. His physical body however remains in the
Great North Cave for the duration of the game.

- Shinra cover up the incident at Nibelheim and repopulate the town with
Shinra staff. Experiments carry on at the Mansion, but Jenova is moved to
Shinra Headquarters (now minus her head), for safekeeping. After the cloning
project proves to be a failure, Hojo moves back to Midgar permanently and
carries on research there. At some point he captures Nanaki for a series of
unknown tests and names him Red XIII.
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Default  06.11.02, 12:52:34
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Wanna have the whole plot analysis? Look on gamefaqs.com and search for FFVII.

@ Victim of Kefka: BTW, since you rule and all that stuff, I'd like ta know if ya would wanna become ma buddy or something.

Last edited by Grand_Cross; 06.11.02 at 13:11:25..
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  Victim Of Kefka
 
 
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Default  06.11.02, 15:20:04
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All this most certainly makes sense, except for one thing, Cloud was stabbed through the chest, if he didnt die in the reacter there and then he would have died on the way back down from mount Nibel, my theory on this is that when they were put in the tubes in the shinra mansion that once injecting the Jenova cells into their bodies they blasted it with mako (life energy) and this caused the cells now in them to regenerate the damaged organs and limbs thus restoring life to the body, Zack probably did survive in that reacter but not Cloud and that could be another reason why his memories were so messed up, he was sharing mako energy with Zack and got alot of Zacks memories washed into his own mind!
Quote:
@ Victim of Kefka: BTW, since you rule and all that stuff, I'd like ta know if ya would wanna become ma buddy or something.
lol ok
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Default  06.11.02, 15:25:24
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Cloud wasn't stabbed through the chest, Zack was. If you whant to know where I got this info, go down into the shinra mansion dungeon and look around the test tube thing. Cloud will have a flash back and remember more about his past.

*Or something like that, I'm playing it over again to make sure.


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  Victim Of Kefka
 
 
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Default  06.11.02, 16:22:36
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Looks like you dont remember that clip very well either, Zack was defeated by Seph and Cloud in his lower class soldier outfit came in and tried to stop Seph who then got stabbed in the chest he in turn pics Seph up while the sword is still in him and throws him over the edge, go and play the game again and see for urself!
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Default  06.11.02, 18:11:37
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i'll have to agree with kefka on this one...
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Default  06.13.02, 05:49:16
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Tatoa, you are incorrect, and because of your lack of recall, you are confusing other people in the forum. You yourself obviously have very confused ideas of the game, and have muddled up events. YOu see the flashback on the 3rd disc in the Laboratory, Only showed us that Cloud and Zack where under treatment, and then told us that they escaped, got on a truck and drove to Midgar, this is where Zack and Cloud were discovered, Zack was killed and Cloud was left there to Claim Zack's sword.
Now do you understand? The part of the game you are referring to is Cloud's phsyc when he enters the lifestream. He discovers his past and realises the faults of his life... now that that is cleared up people, may not seem as confused as they once were.

You see Sephiroth did not gather infomation whilst in the lifestream. You see, Sephiroth knew everything from the books that he read in Nibleheim.
Corresponding with what I just said, the 2nd Sephiroth (to whom i regard as a clone) was NOT Jenova, you see why would Jenova refer to herself, and why would she be seaking God power with Sephiroth's body? If the 2nd Sephiroth was Jenova, why would she be looking for the black materia to give to Sephiroth so that he would become a God??? I'm sure that if the 2nd Sephiroth was Jenova she would be freeing her self and be summoning meteor upon herself, so that she would be given the opportunity to be a God. And it is quite clear in the game that the 2nd Sephiroth was Sephiroth himself, as he refers to himself as Sephiroth, and if it was Jenova then i'm sure that she would refer to herself.

This whole thing about Sephiroth falling into the Lifestream and learning EVERYTHING about the Cetra history is absolute bull sh!t. Why is it that when Sephiroth is in the Temple of the Ancients he is astonished by the Ancient Prediction on the wall (of meteor) ??? This is the answer and idea Sephiroth HIMSELF had been looking for after he read the books in the Shinra Mansion and got his Mother back. Sephiroth had been searching a way to reunite and rule the planet. That is Sephiroth's goal ever since he was changed in the Laboratory just before he destroyed Nibleheim (to become the leader of the planet). After Sephiroth found the answer in the Ancient temple, about Meteor coming and threatening the very life of the planet, triggering great mako energy to go to the planets wound, thus causing his existing body to be merged with energy becoming a God. So my theory is that the Lifestream didn't give Sephiroth ANY knowledge, and if gave Sephiroth all the Ancient knowledge, then why the hell when Cloud fell into the Lifestream give Cloud this knowledge also?

You see, Hojo is Sephiroth's father, Hojo and Lucrecia had a child and Hojo and his mind where hellbent on creating the ultimate being (don't ask me why, You see know one understands Hojo), he then injected Lucrecia with Jenova cells. All this infomation is portrayed in VINCENT's flashback.
I saw someone resently in this thread that said Jenova cells were injected into Infalna... What the fark! Gast and Ifalna were Aeris' mother and father and Lucrecia, Hojo and were Sephiroth's parents.

I AM RIGHT everything I have said is not theoretical or hypthetic it is portrayed during the game... if you have any queries please post them as I have a lot more knowledge of this topic as is portrayed here.
hehe i'll give you Amateurs some advice, and i'll also give you the chance to not embarress yourselves...
There are 5 key area's that show you about this topic
they are: - Cloud's past story in Kalm
-Vincent's Flashback
-Cloud's phsyc in Mideel (lifestream)
- Video's in Professor Gast's Lab in the Icicle Inn
- And finnally the 3rd Disc Flash back of Cloud and Zack in the Shinra Mansion Laboratory, and also the reports in the back of the Laboratory Library...

Do not consult me unless you have gone over these area's in detail, and/or are very confident in your in-experienced, undeveloped theory's from say your first 2 game run throughs...

"Adveristy only strengthens our resolve."
- Kyall K

"Being truly in intelligent is knowing that you know nothing."
- UNKNOWN

"Comforming to society is something I can't bear, but the only way in which I can live."
- Kyall K

Last edited by Nanaki; 06.13.02 at 05:52:38..
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Default  06.13.02, 15:44:25
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well aren't we a pro eh?
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